Bejelentkezés
Felhasználónév:

Jelszó:
SúgóSúgó
Regisztráció
Elfelejtettem a jelszót
 
F R I S S
 
Menü
 
Cikkek
 
Dalszövegek és Tabok
 
Kedvenc linkjeim
 
Kedvenc zenészek
 
Képek
 
Letöltések
 
Netes játékok
 
Kurt Cobain
 
Video
 
 
Kurt Cobain
Kurt Cobain : the rome incident

the rome incident

  2004.08.20. 23:34

a római incidens

   THE ROME INCIDENT, MARCH 4th 1994

Kurt Cobain lived for twenty seven years, some of which were blighted by excruciating stomach
pains that sometimes drove him to consider suicide.  But He survived. He managed to get treatment
for that problem. He survived.

Within hours of Courtney Love and Michael DeWitt joining Kurt in Rome, hours in which Kurt
argued with Courtney and finally decided to leave her, Kurt was fighting for his life in a hospital in
Rome.

Courtney's response to this was to tell Select magazine:
"If he thinks he can get away from me that easily, he can forget it.  I'll follow him through hell."

She said this not within the context of a failed suicide, but within the context of an argument in
which he told her he was leaving her.  It is reminiscent of a recorded threat by Courtney to Victoria
Clarke, "I will haunt you to fucking hell, for the rest of your life."

                                 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Grant believes that this overdose was an attempt by Courtney to murder Kurt.  The overdose was
due to his ingesting Rohypnol and champagne, which Grant believed Courtney administered to Kurt
without his knowledge.

Wallace and Halperin mention this in their book and then ask why Courtney would have called the
ambulance whilst Kurt was unconscious, rather than leaving him to die?

In an interview with Robert Hillburn on April 4th 1994, Courtney talked about the overdose in
Rome.  Hilburn reported:

Love had flown to Rome early last month to spend a few days with Cobain after he cancelled part of a
European concert tour, caused by illness.  She woke in the hotel room to find him unconscious, having
taken some of her prescription tranquilizers and alcohol,  she says; " He was dead......legally dead,  he was
in a coma for 20 hours...on life support.  They thought he was never going to come out of it."  (LA Times
April 10th 1994).

Maybe Courtney did leave him until she thought he was dead.  Her above statement looks to me
like amazed disbelief that he was not dead. Maybe the answer is that obvious.

Reports came through that Cobain had been moved from the Umberto Prima Hospital--allegedly at Courtney
Love's insistence--to the American Hospital...Many thought that, in the state he was in, Cobain would not be
moved anywhere unless doctors at the Umberto had said they could do nothing more for him.  A doctor at
the Umberto Prima said: "Cobain was in a grave condition when he left here."  (Melody Maker's March 12th
1994 edition).

How wise was it to have Kurt transferred at this point?  Could this have been a desperate attempt to
set-back/prevent his recovery?  I know it was supposed to be for security reasons, but I question
this excuse.

On March 3rd, just a few hours before she met Kurt in Rome, Courtney did an interview with
Select magazine, the writer said that during this interview Love was popping Rohypnol:

There is a box of Rohypnol on the big mahogony table in the middle of Courtney Love's London hotel room,
among the scattered papers and cigarette boxes.
"Look, I know this is a controlled substance," she smiles as she empties one of those fizzy stomach upset
powders into a tumbler of water and washes back a Rohypnol.
"I got it from my doctor. It's like Valium. You know, fuck that Prozac stuff.  I'm not a depressive, I tried
it for like five or six days, and by the sixth day I started seeing tracers like when you're on acid..."
(Select's May 1994 edition).

In Melody Maker's March 12th 1994 edition there was a two page article on Kurt's overdose.  
Everett True had reviewed that weeks singles with Courtney just prior to her flying to Rome.  True
reported that during this review, Courtney said:

"This reminds me of when I take those dihydrocodeines I get over here in London, with Rohypnol and
champagne."

Everett True ended his article by saying:

" If Kurt Cobain wants to take Rohypnol, drink champagne and go into a coma, it's up to him (and his wife,
presumably,) and no-one else."

So, Courtney had the Rohypnol, and experience of that method of using it, at a time that was
crucial.  Everett, where is your compassion?

But was it up to Kurt? It is possible that he wasn't aware that he had been administered it.
Rohypnol is tasteless when dissolved in drink, that is why it is called the date-rape drug.  One
tablet in a drink is enough to confuse and disorientate a person.

It was claimed that Kurt ordered champagne and requested for a bell boy to fill a prescription for Rohypnol, the prescription was Courtney's.  How do we know Kurt ordered them? Contrary to
Brite's claim that Jackie was the Nanny in Rome, it was reported at the time that Love, Frances
Bean and Cali joined Kurt in Rome. If these were ordered by phone, then DeWitt, aka Cali, could
have ordered them, and Kurt could have been oblivious to it.

The story as it unfolds in the Rossi/Brite books is that Kurt was acting the romantic, ordering
champagne, providing flowers, sending out for a prescription. Courtney fell asleep.  She woke up
between 3-4 in the morning and found Kurt unconscious, with blood coming from his nose. He had a
wad of cash in one hand, and a note he had written in the other, he was wearing a brown corderoy
jacket. (Rossi p187/ Brite p 164.)

This does not make sense at all.  We know Kurt wrote a note, nearly all sources agree on that.  The
only example I can find of Kurt's explanation of this note is in Cobain by the editors of Rolling
Stone, p90  where a Gold Mountain employee said:

"Kurt insisted it was not a suicide note.  He just took all of his and Courtney's money and was going to run
away and disappear."
In the article as it was originally published in Rolling Stone's June 2 1994 edition it reports that this
Gold Mountain employee was Janet Billig.

There seems to be a problem here.  I will always accept Kurt's reasons and doubt Courtney's.  On
that basis then, why would Kurt write a note, prepare to leave, get the cash together, and then take
an overdose?  The two actions are contradictory. The other point is that Brite wrote that Courtney
woke up between 3-4 in the morning and found him unconcious----but the ambulance wasn't called
until 6.30 am.

This incident was described at the time as an accident/mistake/inadvertant overdose.  A convenient
mistake/accident/etc, which just happened when Kurt was leaving, running away.  A mistake which
involved Rohypnol and champagne, substances Kurt did not use but that Courtney was in the habit
of using in combination and had at her disposal, substances notorious for their use to incapacitate
victims.  I don't believe this was a mistake for one minute.  And I believe Kurt's reasons, so I can
only consider the possibility that Grant is right, and that it was attempted murder.  It was only after
Kurt's death that it was claimed this was a suicide attempt.

The accounts are a mess, we only have slivers of information which come from reliable sources.  
Courtney and DeWitt's can be discarded.

All I can do is try to piece together what might have happened using the facts I have.  So the
following is hypothetical, a possibility, an opinion.  Are opinions banned under the British libel laws,
Nick? Well, I'll take my chances.

Kurt wasn't attempting suicide. The note Kurt wrote was a note saying he was leaving Courtney,
running away. On these foundations Kurt didn't take any Rohypnol that he was aware of.

1
  Kurt argued with Courtney, he told her he was leaving, both her, and the tour he was on.

2
  Someone ordered champagne and for the prescription to be delivered. But this might not have
been Kurt. Kurt might not have known about this.

3
  Kurt didn't drink alcohol, this is witnessed by people who toured with him.  Just one Rohypnol
was dissolved in a small amount of champagne, which was then diluted with water, maybe in Kurt's
famous bottle of Evian water.

The perpetrators of this act have enough experience of using Rohypnol to know what they are
doing.  They provide just enough of the drug to render him incapable of leaving. Safe in the
knowledge that Kurt won't get very far, they leave the room, possibly to decide what to do next.

According to Rossi p 186 the suite Kurt had in the Excelsior Hotel had an extra bedroom for the
nanny. Maybe they go there.

4
  Because Courtney wasn't in the room, Kurt wrote a note saying that he was leaving.  He got
ready to leave.

5
  The drug took effect before he could get away.

6
  The perpetrators then returned.

7
  Kurt was incapacitated.  Why did he have a bloody nose?

8
  The perpetrators forcefully administered Rohypnol and champagne, Kurt struggled, and in the  
process he injured his nose.  When a person is forcefully administered liquid, their noses are
pinched to force them to gulp air/liquid to breathe.

She saw the top of Kurt's blonde head whipping furiously back and forth, P. Brite p 169.  This was
Courtney's description of Kurt supposedly being man-handled into an ambulance.

Are you sure you aren't confused, Courtney?  You obviously saw this somewhere, are you playing
with the truth?

9
  The perpetrators wait until 6.30 am before they raise the alarm, by this time they believe that
he is dead.

This is hypothetical, but it shows a sequence of events which makes sense.  Provides answers to the
contradictions that otherwise stand.

Grant doesn't have the answers to everything.  He does have an informed opinion though, and
many people believe him.  This will not go away.  There are serious and legitimate reasons to
reopen this case.

Rome was never investigated as attempted murder, it should have been, maybe it still can.

Kurt's death MUST be re investigated.  The patterns evident in Rome/Lke Wash Blvd cannot be
ignored.

Kurt survived. Dr Galletta who was responsible for Kurt's treatment, issued the following
statement:

"Cobain doesn't know what happened to him.  He hasn't gained complete control of his memory.  When he
emerged from the coma, he was very hungry and asked for a strawberry milkshake!" (Melody Maker
March 12th 1994.)

Victims of date-rape/Rohypnol often don't remember what happened to them, and their memory
comes back at different rates, sometimes remaining lost for years.

In Dave Thompson's book, Never Fade Away, published 1994 ( p 11), Thompson mentioned an
internet posting by Kurt, where he said:

"I'm still pretty freaked over the Rome thing, and need some time to rest and get over it.  You'd think they
could make a good milkshake, but no."

I would be freaked if my intended plans suddenly came to a halt, and I ended up in hospital for no
reason that I could fathom.  In Rome,  Kurt was on the verge of running away, next thing he finds
himself in hospital and he doesn't know why.

Sandford mentions this same posting ( p 323), but he omitted the above section, maybe by 1995
(when Sandford's book was published) it wasn't convenient to include the above, Kurt had a healthy
propensity for milkshakes and breakfasts, not really in keeping with a suicidal man, a bit
inconvenient.  The fact is that as time passes certain bits of information which pertain to Kurt are
lost whilst facts/evidence supporting Courtney's claims are constantly evolving, miraculously
appearing.  These unnamed/Courtney claims are an insult to Kurt Cobain
.

Victims (of Rohypnol/date rape,) are usually unconcious for at least 10 hours and may only remember
events in flashbacks over the next few days......Last year Rohypnol's manufacturer introduced an anti abuse
mechanism, in which a bright blue liquid is produced once the drug is dissolved.  (London Evening
Standard, 20th August 1999).

If this was an attempt to murder Kurt, and Kurt survived, what on earth could Kurt be thinking
and feeling?

Shocked, confused, scared?  Probably not even remembering exactly what had transpired.

He did try to leave Courtney, after his return to Seattle. He certainly contacted his lawyer
Rosemary Carroll asking her to write a new will excluding Courtney. He kept several guns for his
protection, until the police confiscated them.

The friction within their relationship escalated to intolerable levels in the days proceeding Rome.
Why?

If it was just a tiff, as Courtney claimed, well that's no big deal.

If it was a suicide attempt, and Courtney was concerned, she would have told friends, to ensure
they kept an eye on him, she didn't do this.

Instead Courtney hounded Kurt  (see nanny interview.  See police report for March 1994, police
reports are on the internet.)

Why did he return to Seattle and remain under the same roof as Courtney?  There are witnesses
to support the fact Kurt was trying to leave, see the Broomfield/Nanny interview, see the Peter
Cleary statement.  See the police report for March 1994.

But why didn't he just physically walk?

He'd just come out of a coma, he had been ill and exhausted even before that happened.  I don't
know.  Maybe  he still hadn't yet gained complete memory of what happened in Rome.

"The last image I have of him, which in the light of the tragedy now seems pathetic, is of a young man
playing with the little girl (Frances). He did not seem like a young man who wanted to end it all."  Dr.
Galletta, the doctor who treated Kurt in Rome.



REFERENCES TO THE ROME "SUICIDE" NOTE.

1
   "Kurt insisted it was not a suicide note.  He just took all of his and Courtney's money and was going to
run away and disappear." (Gold Mountain employee, Janet Billig, Rolling Stone's June 2 1994 edition).

2
 "It was on hotel stationary, and he's talking about how I'm not in love with him anymore...and he knows
how much I love him...and that like Hamlet, he had to choose between life and death, and he said he was
choosing death." (Courtney Love's description of the Rome note, Spin Magazine's Feb 1995 edition).

3
 When he returned the note from Rome to her,  Courtney claims Sgt. Cameron told her "This will never
do you any good.  I'd get rid of it if I were you." So.......she burned it!   (Grant website.)

                                            

                                                  
KURT'S DRUG USE

Courtney has used every opportunity to highlight that Kurt was suicidal and using drugs heavily in
the days prior to and after Rome.  She has unnamed sources to support her claims!!  Melissa Rossi
repeatedly accentuated the use of heroin and makes no reference to any possible habitual use, by
Kurt, of Rohypnol.  The only mention of it is its use at the time of the Rome overdose.

There are witnesses to the fact that Kurt was clean during the tour, see quotes of Tony Barber and
Pete Shelley in Kurt wasn't suicidal section.

In the March 12th edition of Melody Maker, Everett True commented on Kurt's drug/alcohol
consumption as follows:

"Although it's no secret that in the past Kurt Cobain has taken drugs, sometimes to excess, the last time
we met (in Seattle, last December -1993), he seemed completely "clean".  That is, he was clean, optimistic
and happier than he'd been for years....I knew that he'd cut down on his drug taking for a while....He hadn't
taken alcohol in any serious quantity for several years, that's for sure."

The overdose in Rome was attributed to a combination of champagne and Rohypnol. There has
never been any inclusion of heroin in this combination, which implies no heroin was found in
Kurt's system.  This supports Barber and Shelleys' claims that Kurt was clean. It would also
explain why Kurt denied he had a drug problem when he was faced with the intervention, and

Steve Chatoff's statement:
"He was in full denial." (Cobain by The editors of Rolling Stone p 82)

and Dylan Carlson's quote:
"He felt like he had no habit," ( Sandford p 324).


Chapter 18 of Poppy Z Brite's book: 'Courtney Love: The Real Story'  published 1997 begins:

Conversation overheard on a flight from Rome to Seattle, March 12, 1994:
"Give me a Rohypnol."
"They're gone."
A silence.  Five minutes later:
"C'mon, give me a Rohypnol.".
"They're gone Kurt.  They are gone.  I dumped them all down the fuckin toilet.  It's over."
"Fuck you, you lying bitch, give me a Rohypnol....Please..."

This is a new progression.  Again, no name for the person who overheard this conversation.  It
wasn't mentioned in Melissa Rossi's book 'Courtney Love: Queen of Noise' published in 1996.

Courtney has had a few months to elaborate on her stories, before the "New and Improved"
version makes it's debut, courtesy of Poppy Brite.  The above is an attempt to tackle the previous
lack of references with regards to Kurt being a familiar user of Rohypnol.  It also introduces the
notion that Kurt was now using Klonopin, heroin and speed (might as well go the whole gamut,
Courtney, cover all possibilities, Kurt's not here to defend himself.)

There are witnesses to support the fact Courtney was popping pills, and was familiar with the
method of mixing them with champagne/drink before and after Rome, see the previously
mentioned Everett True comments,  and the following:

After their return from Rome Courtney considered administering Valium to Kurt in a drink,
secretly, because she claims she was concerned that Kurt was manic and  needed to rest (Poppy Z
Brite's 'Courtney Love: The Real Story' p 168).

Are you sure you aren't confused Courtney? Are you messing with the truth?  You obviously
thought of this at some point.  Anyway, it contradicts Kurt's posting, where he makes it clear that
he is aware he needs rest.  I think he could cope without your intervention.

On March 22nd at Kurt's insistence they returned the Lexus Courtney had bought. Kurt was
begining to take the upper hand, getting rid of what he didn't want, he seemed quite capable of
this, and it caused Courtney to panic, behave in an unstable manner. As he took control,
she lost it.


Kurt was not the unstable, incapable wreck unnamed sources would have us believe.

"Courtney was popping pills, she had to use the bathroom and she dropped a handful of pills and had to
pick them up," (Joe Kenney, salesman at the American Dream car lot,  talking of  the return of the Lexus,  
WKKC? p 90).

Also see Sandford p 320, where Kenney described Love
as unstable at this time:

Kenney remarked that neither Kurt nor Courtney looked like they would be around much longer because
they were so strung out on drugs, Kenney didn't mention that he actually saw Kurt taking pills though.

Kurt had been ill enough to cancel the tour he was on, he had also survived a serious coma where
he almost died, his physical appearance could be down this.  Because Kurt was clean to other
witnesses,  I have to give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume that that is why he looked
rough, and perhaps Kenney assumed wrongly that Kurt was  strung out on drugs.

No heroin was found in Kurt's system in the Rome overdose, and witnesses exist to state that
Kurt was clean, and above all this Kurt himself denied he had a drug problem.  Therefore Kurt
could not, at this time, be classified as a heavy drug user who had a high tolerance for heroin.  This
is important.

When Kurt died, he had 1.52 milligrams of morphine per litre of blood in his system. Dr Cyril
Wecht, one of America's leading forensic pathologists stated:

"With a level of 1.52 millilitres per litre of morphine as found in Kurt's blood level, for the great
percentage of people including addicts, it would induce a state of unconciousness quite quickly, in
seconds, not even minutes.  It would be virtually impossible for him to have shot himself with that high
a level of morphine.  It raises a question if he shot that shotgun, a big question." (WKKC? by Max
Wallace and Ian Halperin, p 113).

Two Doctors attended Lake Washington Blvd on April 8th, Dr Donald Reay and Dr  Nikolas
Hartshorne.  Hartshorne was a friend of Courtney's.  It was his verdict of suicide that made Kurt a
victim for the second time, firstly of murder, then incompetence.

Dr Reay has since justified this verdict by saying that a severe heroin addict has a higher
tolerance and that the level of morphine present in Kurt would not exclude him from being able to
pull the trigger (not to mention tidying up the works, pulling down his sleeves etc), due to the fact
he was a severe heroin addict.

Kurt was clean.  So once again the Seattle police and medical examiners prove that shabby
incompetence and lack of investigative techniques do not exclude acceptance into their realms.
Just accept evidence provided by the most likely suspect of any given crime.  Case solved.

How glaringly obvious do the discrepancies need to be, before this case is taken seriously?  Before
the likes of Caitlin Moran stop offering such inane comments as:

"Nick Broomfield's persistently uncomprehending film Kurt and Courtney,"

and:

"She seems amazed that she and Kurt hadn't cast off plaid shirts and decamped to the semi-tropics (of LA)
years before." (Select Magazine September 1999).

Select is a British music publication which refuses to report this case with integrity, it consistently
supports the actions of Courtney Love, boycott it, please.

Caitlin, you don't even get the basic facts right, the Rome overdose was on March 4th, not the 2nd.
 Courtney was born in 1964, not 1965.  Kurt hated LA Courtney loved it. Kurt wanted to live in
Seattle, Courtney in LA  Kurt died, Courtney got what she wanted.

You are persistently uncomprehending, Caitlin.  You would qualify to work for the Seattle Police
Department.

Additional information.  I have now managed to get film of Dr. Galletta, where he said, after the
Rome overdose:
"Kurt Cobain is clearly and dramatically improving.  Yesterday he was hospitalized at the Rome American
Hospital in a state of coma and respiratory failure.  Today he is recovering from a pharmacological coma
due not to narcotics, but the combined effect of alcohol and tranquillizers that had been medically
prescribed by doctor."

So Kurt definitely had no heroin in his system at the time of the overdose, and therefore he was
clean.

 
Óra
 
Chat
Ide írhat mindenki. Idióták, debilek, értelmi fogyatékosok stbstbstb inkább ne.. :P
Név:

Üzenet:
:)) :) :@ :? :(( :o :D ;) 8o 8p 8) 8| :( :'( ;D :$
 
A hét képe
 
Naptár
2024. Április
HKSCPSV
01
02
03
04
05
06
07
08
09
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
01
02
03
04
05
<<   >>
 
Számláló
Indulás: 2004-08-19
 

Ha te is könyvkiadásban gondolkodsz, ajánlom figyelmedbe az postomat, amiben minden összegyûjtött információt megírtam.    *****    Nyereményjáték! Nyerd meg az éjszakai arckrémet! További információkért és játék szabályért kattints! Nyereményjáték!    *****    A legfrissebb hírek Super Mario világából, plusz információk, tippek-trükkök, végigjátszások!    *****    Ha hagyod, hogy magával ragadjon a Mario Golf miliõje, akkor egy egyedi és életre szóló játékélménnyel leszel gazdagabb!    *****    A horoszkóp a lélek tükre, nagyon fontos idõnként megtudni, mit rejteget. Keress meg és nézzünk bele együtt. Várlak!    *****    Dryvit, hõszigetelés! Vállaljuk családi házak, lakások, nyaralók és egyéb épületek homlokzati szigetelését!    *****    rose-harbor.hungarianforum.com - rose-harbor.hungarianforum.com - rose-harbor.hungarianforum.com    *****    Vérfarkasok, boszorkányok, alakváltók, démonok, bukott angyalok és emberek. A világ oly' színes, de vajon békés is?    *****    Az emberek vakok, kiváltképp akkor, ha olyasmivel találkoznak, amit kényelmesebb nem észrevenni... - HUNGARIANFORUM    *****    Valahol Delaware államban létezik egy város, ahol a természetfeletti lények otthonra lelhetnek... Közéjük tartozol?    *****    Minden mágia megköveteli a maga árát... Ez az ár pedig néha túlságosan is nagy, hogy megfizessük - FRPG    *****    Why do all the monsters come out at night? - FRPG - Why do all the monsters come out at night? - FRPG - Aktív közösség    *****    Az oldal egy évvel ezelõtt költözött új otthonába, azóta pedig az élet csak pörög és pörög! - AKTÍV FÓRUMOS SZEREPJÁTÉK    *****    Vajon milyen lehet egy rejtélyekkel teli kisváros polgármesterének lenni? És mi történik, ha a bizalmasod árul el?    *****    A szörnyek miért csak éjjel bújnak elõ? Az ártatlan külsõ mögött is lapulhat valami rémes? - fórumos szerepjáték    *****    Ünnepeld a magyar költészet napját a Mesetárban! Boldog születésnapot, magyar vers!    *****    Amikor nem tudod mit tegyél és tanácstalan vagy akkor segít az asztrológia. Fordúlj hozzám, segítek. Csak kattints!    *****    Részletes személyiség és sors analízis + 3 éves elõrejelzés, majd idõkorlát nélkül felteheted a kérdéseidet. Nézz be!!!!    *****    A horoszkóp a lélek tükre, egyszer mindenkinek érdemes belenéznie. Ez csak intelligencia kérdése. Tedd meg Te is. Várlak    *****    Új kínálatunkban te is megtalálhatod legjobb eladó ingatlanok között a megfelelõt Debrecenben. Simonyi ingatlan Gportal